- Hey guys, welcome to another episode of "Double Tap" on YouTube. I'm Steven Scott. - And I'm Shaun Preece, hello. - We've got into a rhythm with that. That's quite nice. - I know. - Last time I thought we'd try it and see if it worked. - Yeah. - I've given you your place. That's what I'm trying to do. - You always spoil it. I mean, you just let it go. We did it and you should just carry straight on, but you always draw attention to it. You'll rubbish at this, Steven Scott, I didn't wanna say it. - Are you my wife? What are you complaining about? What's going on here? Goodness me. - Sorry. - Right. Today, AI gets personal. - Ooh. - Ooh. This is actually from you because you were telling me about this. So tell everybody what you're telling me about this new app you found. - Okay, yeah. So I found an app called Pi, and it's Personal AI. Now, this isn't the first. - Oh. - What's wrong with that? What's the matter? - I thought it was like a food app. - Oh, I'm sorry, no. It's not. - I though it was like another a delivery app. - Steak and kidney pie? No. P-I, you'll find it in the App Store. Just search for Pi, space, AI. Now, this isn't actually anything particularly new. There's an app out there already that we talked about many times called Call Annie. And it does a similar thing. It takes the tech amazingness that is AI and personalizes it to you. It makes it more human-like conversational. Asks how you are. And you actually brought attention to Call Annie to me. You said that, you know, your wife was talking to it and having a conversation about a dog. And it's that thing of, when I get to a point where you don't realize you're talking to a computer. We're not quite there yet. But I mean, it's still quite impressive. And this new one that I found, Pi, I was interested to test it out. I've gotta say, in some cases it absolutely blew me away. Firstly, the voices on it are amazing. I mean, it laughs, you know, if you are a fan of voiceover and Alex with the breathing, you've got all the breathing in there. The emotional, the way it passes the emotion over in, it's the way it speaks is, one of the best I've ever heard. - Can it cry? - I've never made the AI cry. It is really interesting. That's where you go, Steven Scott, straight to, "Can I make it cry?" No. - I wanna make it cry. I wanna make it shout. Can I make it shout back? Oh, I'd love, I've always wanted Lady A to shout back 'cause honestly, sometimes, it's like, Lady A, you're just! And then, you know, you kinda expect to go. I'm doing it! - I've called some smart speakers some names in the past. I'm not particularly proud of, but yes. - Listen, when these things come to get us in the end, mines will probably be garroting me, within the first five minutes at least. - The difference between this, or not, the difference between this one as well. So when you think of AI at the minute, I always just go to ChatGPT, right? It was the one that really broke the ground on this. But this one, for example, I asked it what's on a certain TV channel here in the UK? What's on Film4 right now? And it told me exactly what was playing right now. There's no cutoff point. It's not, oh, it's only up to 2021, for example. And the conversation model that it's got, because all AI works on a large language model. That's why we're so, ooh, this is amazing. Because it seems to understand what we say, no matter how you phrase it, or if you, you know, cough in the middle. It seems to understand everything and it can get the context of what you're saying. And I've gotta say, this one was one of the most impressive ones I've tried. Little, little caveat. The accessibility isn't great. But we had a entire conversation about the accessibility of itself. And it said there's a team of blind and visually impaired people that work with the developer in-house on this. And we try to ensure that it is accessible as possible. And I came back and just said- - That sounds a lie. - I came back and said, are you sure? Because there's a lot of unlabeled buttons on here. Are you sure you've got an accessibility team? And she came back and said, "Well, it says that on the website." So... - Wow, she's throwing the developer under the bus. - Yes. - That's impressive. - But yeah, look, there's so many times where we try AI and we think, "Wow, this is the future." And we've talked about this before about the potential of it, and we get carried away. But there are moments and there are almost magical, where you think, just like I'm talking to a human being. But then of course there is still those times where it gets it totally and utterly wrong. That doesn't go away. But the aim of this one is the personalized aspect of it. It's nothing to do with, you know, ordering something or something to do with work. This is just purely from a social point of view. Can AI be used as a companion? Now, you know, I'm not, I'm nervous around that. I don't think that's a good idea at all. But for someone who's on their own a lot or whatever, or not even into technology, this is just the human face to access technology in some cases. No buttons, no weird interfaces, no keyboard or mouse. You simply ask what you want it to do. I'm quite impressed. - Yeah, and I think this is the year where AI does get more personal. I think we're gonna see that coming out in our products. We heard from Envision, of course, on "Double Tap" on the show, we had Karthik Karnan on, and he was talking about this, how AI is going to get more personal this year from Envision. So it feels to me a little bit like, if we thought of AI, or ChatGPT for example, well, OpenAI's whole AI model as WordPress and all of these apps as the website front end. - Yeah, like the themes. - That's how I kind of think about it, because it's all kind of feeding in, it's all feeding from the same place. So it's, you know, OpenAI's, like the content management system and the actual website is the app itself. And it's just people are putting their own gloss, their own front end on it using the tools in different ways. You know, there's one called Opus, for example, which is a website that helps people who are content creators create clips for videos like this. So if you were making a video and you wanted to create a clip from it, instead of going in and doing it yourself, you Opus will just go off and it will analyze it and it's actually pretty clever how it'll do it, it'll even caption it for you, and all of that stuff. So it's all using the same tools. It's just kind of changing it, or you know, just giving you different options. - It's what you're using those tools for, yeah. - I wanna go back to this point about the AI companion because I think in our world, in disability world, I think that this is maybe more important than people give it credit for. I think the Call Annie thing can be seen as a bit of a gimmick because I mean, for example, one of them, when I looked at Call Annie, there was a whole range of new voices and AIs you could talk to. I think one of them was like, I'm probably gonna get this wrong, George Washington. Did you not run America at some point? - Yeah. - Or create it or something. I dunno. - Sorry, Americans. - I'm not that into history. Sorry, Americans. I don't dunno anything. But, you know, I'm Scottish. - Oh, there's a guinea pig in there. - What do I know? - There's Sherlock Holmes in there. - Yeah, but the George Washington one. So I asked his thoughts on the current state of American politics. - A bit dangerous. - And of course he couldn't, but he couldn't answer it. 'cause he's like, well, I don't come from that time, so I couldn't possibly. And I thought, obviously, the way they're doing that is they're kind of, you know, giving the information relevant to the time. I thought this was actually quite clever, you know, the idea of, you know, because I dunno if I could, I could ask a guinea pig what it thinks about current state of election, but probably, would make more sense of , half the politicians would. - Guinea pig would know nothing about anything. So I mean, there's limits to it. - It can tell you what the hay is, but that's it. - Is it? I know where the ball is. It could be just- - One ball and the wheel. - It could be just the case of the cutoff point. 'cause it's using ChatGPT as its backbone, could be the cutoff point, it doesn't know current politics. I mean, was it limited to, oh, when was he about 1800 and something? I don't know. - Whatever America was funded, which was last week? I dunno. But here's the thing, you know, these are all the kind of gimmicky things and they're fun. Right? They're fun. And I could absolutely see a time, and it'll not be far away. In fact, it's probably already in you somewhere. But in education, I mean, you think back to the days at school. How boring. This is why you don't know anything, right? Because history class was boring. It was. It was boring. You'd sit there and someone would bring out a dusty book and the teacher would sit on the table and start telling you tales about some world war. You'd like, oh, this is so boring. When's lunch? You know, but if you could put on a pair of headphones or sit in front of a computer and talk to someone from the time. Wow. - Yeah, no, I totally agree. - I mean, that would just be incredible. Have a conversation with the past. I mean, that is cool. - You wanna make George Washington cry? I get it, yeah. I understand. - Yes, I'll absolutely be trying to do that. And rewrite some of the constitution as well. Some things I'd like to change there. - No, there's so many possible use cases for something like this. But if we're talking about companionship, do you think that technology can even, is even close to replacing an actual human being to talk to? Isolation is a big deal. - Honestly, no. - Sorry, go on. - Well, no to the, can it take over and be a companion today? I don't think it can because I think when you listen to 'em, when you get into the conversations, there's a kinda repetitive nature to some of the way that the answers come out. Initially, it's quite impressive. So the good example was, as you mentioned earlier, my wife, who wasn't really that interested in all this, and I showed her the Call Annie thing, I think she wondered why I was talking to this woman on her phone. And, you know, who is this person kind of thing. And I said, look, you should try this. Try talking to her. And, you know, I watched her take the phone, go and sit on the sofa and just start having a conversation with this. Now, interestingly, it took about 10 minutes before she got bored. And she got bored because the answers started to repeat themselves. It was like, or she would continually end a statement with a question back to you. - Yes, yes. - But sometimes you just wanna follow up on what she's maybe just said. But it would be like, "Oh, well, that's an interesting dog of choice. What's your favorite dog?" And it's like, "Well, I'm talking about this, I want to focus in on this." - I would say. - I think that's where the problem is kind of, it's like, it's too, it's like just answer my questions. Don't ask me anymore. - You start to notice patterns. We are so good at noticing patterns and I will say, I find that as well. I could be blown away by the answer, but then there was, and what do you think about X, Y, and Z? It's like, that was almost added on. And after each answer, you think that's just too much. It doesn't, it starts to feel unnatural. But then again, you know, you can get bored talking to human beings as well. - Yeah, but there's another problem. So you talk about companion, right? So companion, a good example might be where someone wants to talk about how they're feeling, they maybe feel depressed. - Yes. - That they don't feel good or whatever. And they'll start mentioning that. And if you start going down that route with certain of these AIs at the moment, what instantly happens is she becomes like a human. She starts to kinda go, "well, you know, it's lovely day outside must go." You know, or she'll tell you, "You know, you must call your hospital immediately." And you think, that's not really what I'm looking for. I just want you to say, how are you feeling? And you know, for it to just listen, you know? And almost, I don't care if you're listening or not at that point, you know, because do you just want to talk, right? - Should that even be a thing? I'm not sure. I'm not sure. Again, I'm so uncomfortable with the thought of when it comes to someone's mental welfare or wellbeing of leaving that in charge of AI or expecting that AI can even handle anything close to that. - I think it's the, you gotta have a starting point though, right? So there's examples, many examples I think about where, you know, there have been times when people have been clearly calling out for help. There's a case recently in America where this happened, where a woman, you might have seen this case, a mother was, I think it was, she was a jailed, or she was, I can't remember what happened to her, but she basically was, she was charged with the crimes of her son who had shot up at school. - Oh yeah, of course. Yeah. - And the kid was crying for help, right? The kid, I mean, she bought him a gun, she, you know, enabled him with a gun. And then she, you know, he's sending messages, there's text messages like, I don't feel good. I'm seeing devils, I'm seeing demons. The teachers weren't picking up on it, the parents weren't picking up on it, you know, and I think if that person was able to get a little bit of support and help early on, a tragedy could have been averted. And I think that's the case for a lot of people. We live in isolation. This is a bit about, it's not like technology, no, no, we do. And kids today, I mean, you know, if you find a kid that can talk without texting at first, parents text their kids. I'm like, don't text your kids. Talk to your kids. - No, I totally get that. And I totally agree with you. - Because they're living in isolation. They're just staring at a screen talking to, you know, bubbles on a screen, and that's it. That's all they're doing. - Exactly what we are doing right now. It's not always a negative. But I'm saying look in that case there. - But we are talking. - We're handing it over to AI, the someone who's going through some sort of mental crisis and saying, if AI was there, because, you know, there was slipped through- - But the humans aren't listening. They're not listening. There's example after example of humans are just not listening to their own kids, to their own families. People are saying, I need help. How many times, how many times with people we know who've lost their vision and someone says, you know, I don't feel great today. And the response is, "Ah, you know, it's fine. You'll get over it." Or, "You know, tomorrow will be better." Or, "There's always someone more soft than you and it's only your eyes." I've had that many a time and I'm screaming at the walls. - You think AI could handle that better? - But for a starters, it might not give me those responses. It may even help me get access to the right response through the right person to the right person. Sometimes that's all you need. If you can just get someone, I don't think AI should be the replacement for therapists or the replacement for mental health support. I'm not suggesting that. But what I am thinking is that it's a great place to begin so that the flags can start, you know, the red flags can start coming up at the right time in the right places and get the support to the right place. Of course, this depends on all the other factors, right? The humans being there to- - Of course, yeah. - To take on that level of support. - Resources being there anyway in the first place. - And that's another issue entirely. - Well, yeah. Again, though, I think this comes down to AI being the most accessible interface to technology. It's not a case of AI replacing a human being. It's that someone who is going through something like that could possibly find what resources are out there in the easiest way, just by a normal natural conversation of saying, "Hey, I'm having these feelings. I'm not feeling great or whatever." And AI being able to go off and find the resources that are available rather than trying to tackle it itself. I totally agree. AI is an amazing interface to technology. - And there are people in this world who are, you know, not feeling depressed, but they maybe live alone. They don't have anyone else around. You know, everyone talks about having families and kids and it's like a lot of people don't have all that. - That's true. - A lot of people in this world live alone. And there's a lot of us who use the Amazon Echo and I know people who pretty much, that's the only voice they hear all day. - Yeah. - Having that voice coming back at them is maybe the only communication they get. And that means a lot to those people. That means a lot to them. And that's not even like, that's just basic AI at the moment, right? It mean that's not even AI, it's just answering a question. - It is. - It is AI, I suppose. - Well. - But it's basic level compared to what is out today. And you know, I think that as the Amazon Echo evolves, and I think Amazon have to be quite smart about this. If Amazon can get this right, it can really make a difference. I know that everyone's excited about Siri getting better and you know, all these other assistant getting better. But for a lot of people, I think the Echo is the gateway to the internet for a lot of people who are not that tech savvy. - I agree. - They can easily access and find things, right? Music or books, whatever it might be, radio stations, podcasts, whatever it is. You can easily access them on that device and you can do it by voice. And having just a bit more natural conversation could make that whole experience just that little bit brighter for someone. And I think that could be life changing for people. You know, the most life changing things are the smallest things, every time. It's the smallest. It's not the huge product or the latest gadget, it's sometimes just the things we use every day. Just getting that little bit better. You know, if you imagine a device kicking up in the morning and saying, you know, you turn off your alarm in the morning and it says, "Hey, how are you feeling today?" And that person responds, "You know, what I feel okay today." Or, "You know, I feel a bit down." Or, "Yeah, kinda like to talk." Okay, let's talk a bit something, let's play a game. You wanna play a game? You love games. - Yeah. Yeah. - Let's play a game. You know, that would be, it's just, again, life changing for people. - But life changing in a good way. I mean, could you get an unhealthy relationship with an AI? I mean we're going down sci-fi movie here. - If no one else? - Yeah, I suppose so. - As opposed to what? Sitting, staring at the four walls and talking to yourself. - Well, forcing you to get out and interact with actual human beings. - But some people might not, there are people who are not gonna do that, Shaun. - No, agree with that. - And I know we are, you know, I'm not one of them, neither are you. But that doesn't mean that those people don't exist. - No, of course not. And there's times in our lives where all of us are have been like that, I'm sure. Where you don't want to go out and face the world. Yeah, I totally get that. And maybe this is a almost an need to get people to do that. But is it a replacement? If you never left the house again and you just spoke to AI, is that enough? Could it be enough? I don't know. - I think you've got, I think you've gotta see it as a gateway. I think you've gotta see it as a gateway. The way the Echo is a gateway to the internet. I think it's a gateway to social because it's also a gateway to social skills. Now, for example, it could be a Zoom group or something that you can join and you could get involved with this. How this all started during the pandemic. All of it fell away, unfortunately. But a lot of these things started off that way during the pandemic and people were able to join Zoom groups on the Echo and all that kind of thing. I used the Echo as an example 'cause it is very popular, but you know, it was so interesting with those kind of devices kicking up and being able to do that because what it led to were people forming friendships over the device and then they could meet those people when we eventually were able to get out again. And I think that could be something positive. Now I think that's much better than asking the question about whether AI's good or not for companionship. I think let's let it flourish. See what it happens. I think the answer will be, actually it is. Maybe not companionship with the device, some people might go down that route. I think that's fine. I think what suits you, suits you. But other people might find friendships, real friendships, you know, people talk about online friends not being real friends, but they are, right? They're real people on the other end of that these devices. So, you know, they're as real as anyone else. I mean, if that was the case, you and I can't be friends because you live in Manchester and I live in Glasgow and we see each other once a year if we're lucky. - Yes. - So really we're not friends because you live there and I'm here and it doesn't make, we talk over the internet so it can't be real. Of course, it is. - But that is different. It's different between a software program and an actual human being. - Not if it makes you feel good, not if it makes you, not if it does things for you - Ooh, controversial. Not if it makes you if it makes you feel better. - Not if it makes you feel, it's all about how you feel, right? It's about how you feel. If this thing makes you feel good, maybe you've gone through trauma in your life. Things that you just don't wanna around other people, who knows? There's lots of examples of this. Lots of broken people out there, Shaun. - No, absolutely. - Lots of broken people who just need- - And we're all broken. - Just want to just get through the rest of our lives. - No, absolutely. And yeah, but look, as I said when we started this conversation, I was really impressed by this personal AI, the ability for it to know you. And it feels like, it does feel like someone who's a friend because they know about you. And particularly in this case, it remembers things about you. You know, if you could talk to an AI and it said, "Hey, have you tried talking to so? And so, you know, another family member or something, maybe they'd be able to help." It is that personalized aspect of it, which does give you that connection to a technology. There's something about, it's not generic like Lady A is. Yes, she can recognize your voice but it doesn't actually do anything with that to any great degree. But that connection that you can make with technology is important. I totally agree, but I just think, I'm just slightly cautious about how far that connecting to an AI goes from a relationship. - So here's my question to you before we go, one final question to you, right? - Yes. - How often do you use that app? Now you found it. - Oh, how often do I use it? I've been using it every day, but I haven't been using it for long. So possibly a week. So is that going to drop off as you said? You know, is it going to, oh, this is getting a bit boring now. Honestly, I don't know. I'm using it at- - And what are you doing? Are you just asking it questions or are you actually getting into a conversation? - Well, for example, the reason I really like this one is again, because it's up to date, so is the internet. So I ask every morning, "Gimme a summary of the UK news headlines." Or "Gimme a summary of the tech news today." And it will do that. And sometimes it gives me a long 5 or 10 minutes answer. But I find it really useful for things like that. So you could argue, hey, that's nothing to do with the personalized aspect of it at all. I could use any AI to do that, right? But there is something about this that I particularly like and I dunno what it is. I've just got a connection with it. - There you go. Well, there you go. You just proved my point. Once you've got the connection, it doesn't matter what that connection is. You're looking at it as a, oh, I've got a technical connection here 'cause I'm looking for information. But it's more than that. And I think you're starting to realize that. Basically what I'm saying is, you know, I'm right. - You saying I've fallen in love with a Pi, - You've fallen in love with Pi. I know you're in love with pies. - But you're gonna be in love with these particular pies. So where is this app? - I found it in the Apple App store. So just search for Pi, space, AI and I found it through there. It's also a website, although I dunno that off the top of my head. Again, just search for Pi AI. There's a website. And I'm sure it's on Android phones as well. - Brilliant. Shaun, thanks for that. Really interesting app discovery and as always interesting conversation. We'll catch you next time for another "Double Tap" on YouTube. Bye-Bye. - Bye-Bye. Thank you.