- Hey everybody. Welcome to another "Double Tap" on YouTube. I'm Steven Scott. - And I'm Shaun Preece on that there YouTube. Hello. - Now, today we are gonna talk about audio. Audio. My favorite thing in the world. - Of course, yes. So, we get a lot of questions about what kit we use when we're doing the radio show and when we're producing stuff so, people are interested. So, you know, this isn't a whim, apparently. People care. - Yeah. Not only that, we even maybe planned this out a little bit this week. I mean, I know this is very unusual for us. You may not believe this, but it is true. We did actually contact someone who is an expert in these matters. So we thought we'd bring on a good friend of the show. Michael Babcock is here. Hey Michael. - Thanks for having me. I don't know if I like the word expert though. We'll, you want pretend to know what we like, you know, what we're talking about. - Well, put it this way. If you know more than us, I class you as an expert. - I agree. There we go. - Okay. That works. - Now he's an expert. - Now I'm the expert. - Like Shaun says, we get a lot of questions asking us, you know, about the kit we use. And you know, it's funny because when I started out in radio, it was like racks and racks of equipment, you know, rooms with air conditioning that held lots of equipment, computers and processors and all this stuff that you needed. And huge mixing consoles and studios and lots of computers and screens everywhere. And people would come into the studio and be like, wow, look at all this kit and you have CD players and cart players and all this stuff. And now you can buy this tiny little device called an audio interface, plug a microphone into it, plug that into your computer and you've got amazing sound. And of course the computer has all the capability. If you're a Mac user, just saying Shaun, if you're a Mac user, you get access to so many great tools that make making podcasts and shows, YouTube videos, whatever it might be so easy. - But see, if you're a Mac user and I'm about to shoot Steven's excitement down and you use the tool that Shaun and I have, you have a horrible experience and we can talk about that as well. - Oh, let's, let's definitely do that. Let's talk about the Mac and the terrible experience. Thank you Mike. - Let's absolutely not do that. I'm silencing you. I'm canceling you Babcock. - I have the power on YouTube to do, I can cancel you. - I hope we're talking about the same device because the reason I wanted to talk to you, Michael, is because I've recently had a bit of a swap out of my main mixer that I connect my mic to and everything else to my smart speaker and my smartphone when I'm recording things. So I usually have a, I'm gonna say old fashioned mixer, you know, loads of dials on it and the faders you move up and down and a thousand cables plugged into it. But I've recently swapped that out and I'm going cutting edge, I'm going modern and I've swapped it out for something called the Vocaster Two to be exact, because there is the Vocaster One and two, I've gone for the two. And it's a tiny little, it's kind of a audio interface. I dunno if you would call it that, but it is. And it's just got three dials on it and a couple of plugs and that's it. I've got so much space on my desk now, I dunno what to do with it. But, - Because you had a big mixer, right? You had a big Soundcraft mixer on there. You had audio interfaces coming outta that. - Exactly - Cables spilling out all over the place. - I know, I was quite happy with it. - It was the 12MTK, wasn't it Shaun? - It was the San Craft 12MTK and it presented itself. It's got multiple audio devices in it. It was very good, except for one thing, it couldn't output an input USB at the same time. - Oh, dear So I also had to get an audio interface to chat any, anyway, it turned into a bit of a nightmare. So I've gone, - I mean who would buy such a piece of garbage? and then ship it to Manchester to give to you? Yes. Who would do something like that? - Thank you. Yes. But this isn't the- - I'm not looking at myself. - Every Allen and Heath mixer that I got, the Zed 10 just completely blew up. So - Yeah, not ideal. - I do appreciate it. Steven, literally - Just to be very clear, just because I know we like to wake the lawyers up when we do this, but just to be clear, this was our experience of Alan and Heath. Other Alan and Heath mixers have not blown up I just wanna be very clear on this. - Your experience may be different. Your mileage may vary. - Hopefully. - I love the Allen and Heath mixer. It just, I've gone through two or three where either the button stopped working or in the case of the latest one, the power just stopped working. But yeah, either way I've, I've gone a lot of a more simpler setup. So I've gone for the Vocaster and I know you've gone that way as well, Michael. So, basically this entire episode is just me looking for tips on how to set this thing up. Can you just sort of tell me why you've gone Vocaster? - Yeah, so I actually, interestingly enough, and we didn't know this until we talked, I don't know if Shaun remembers this, but I went from the Soundcraft Signature 12MTK to the Vocaster. - Yes. - I used to have that tank on my desk and it's really weird to have this very small device. So I have the Vocaster One, which has two knobs and three buttons and then lots of things in the back. I really like it because of the simplicity, but I think it was yesterday Shaun told me how he still reaches over for sliders. And I think I said yeah, it'll take about six months or so before you stop reaching over for sliders to turn the volume down. It's a really nice kit. I will say; if you're using specifically MacBook with battery, I can't speak for Windows, but I want to preface this with letting you know; the Vocaster will suck that battery like no other. My MacBook Air when I don't have the Vocaster plugged in, will last, you know, a day or two with regular usage. I went somewhere on a small vacation and didn't take the Vocaster with me, just took my in-ear monitors with me and used the built-in microphone and my Mac. I had to charge it once in the three days that I was gone. I got home and I plugged the Vocaster in and after four hours I was getting a "battery low." So just be conscious. It is a very big battery suck because the Vocaster powers itself with USBC. So the nice thing about it is, is it's literally one cable that you plug into your computer for those who don't know. And that will allow you to interface with your Vocaster and your computer and you don't have to plug power in, which is different than that soundcraft that we used to have. And yeah, so I can answer specific questions or get into the Mac OS issues that people might face there. - Well no, before you start trashing the Mac, I'm not having this. Before you start, I told you I'll cancel you. - I know. - Listen, I want, I wanna get to the kind of main question for me, and I think for anybody who's watching this who doesn't know, what is it about this that's so special, describe it for us and tell us how you would use it. - So they told me not to do this type of stuff when I'm live, but I'm holding the VO caster up to video now. I really shouldn't move it 'cause I'm gonna unplug something. And what that has is it has three buttons, very tactile buttons that you can easily feel for me. That right there makes it worth it. I have this mute button. If you've done any professional audio or you care about your dignity in Zoom, you have to have a physical mute button. I can't do anything on my computer without a physical mute button because if something happens, I can just reach over, hit the button, I can hear myself in my headphones. And when I don't hear myself in my headphones, I know that I'm muted. And to me there, that right there makes it worth the, I think they're 99 US right now for the Vocaster One. I paid like $150 or almost $200 for mine. So they've come down substantially in price. And the other thing is on the back of the Vocaster, there is a eighth inch connector that allows you to plug in your phone and then you can bring your phone into the audio. I, that's how I record the "Shell Phone Show" podcast. Is I plug a cable into the back of the Vocaster and then I plug it into the headphone jack. 'cause the blind shell still has a headphone jack. Thank you. - Yay. - Appreciate that. And then I bring the audio in and I record it on its own track in Reaper versus me on my own track. So, when I'm talking over the phone, I can clean that up a little bit, which is really helpful for listeners. And then the Vocaster does have the power button, so if you just want to turn it off and, and switch to the MacBook speakers or your built-in speakers, you just hit that button and, and it's off and you're ready to go. - Yeah, I, no, I'm really enjoying it so far. Like I say, it is a bit of a change from, if you're used to 'riding the faders' as we call it, to you know, mute your mic or whatever, it is a change. But I do like the amount of space it gives me and it just sounds nice as well. And it's a lot simpler. The thing for me. I've looked at these various interfaces before in the past. I've got a Focus, right? Scarlet Two here, I think audio interface. But the software has always been, well, not accessible or, you know, a bit of a nightmare to use. The thing about this Vocaster is the software that comes with it because it's got no faders on it and you can set it all in software. The the various, you know, if you connect a phone through Bluetooth, which is built in as you said, or through the cable, you can adjust the sliders in the software. And the software is just so accessible. At least I'm using this on Windows 11, I'm using NVIDIA, but in their marketing and in their PR material they mention, you know, this is fully accessible with Microsoft narrator and voiceover on the Mac as well. And that is something that I really like. - Yeah, in the Vocaster One the biggest difference between the One and the Two that I think people should be aware of as well while they're looking into it is of course the Two has two microphone inputs and it has that Bluetooth support. If you get the Vocaster One, you do not get that Bluetooth. So I think that's important to, to distinguish to people. - Yeah. - I'm glad you mentioned that because I must admit, I was about to buy the Vocaster One and I remember you telling me this and I thought I was so glad you did because I just assumed it would come in both devices. But no Vocaster One is pretty much just for computer connection and a microphone, right? That's pretty much all you're gonna get on the Vocaster One, which is great. I guess for someone who might be doing regular teams or Zoom calls, it's not, this isn't just for podcasters, right? I mean I know it's kind of built for that market, but this, this could be beneficial to anybody who's blind, who wants some control over their audio that they're putting out onto Zoom. - Yeah. And if you want to take that that next step and increase the level of your audio, you can get the ATR 2100X or the 2005 and just plug it in via USB and have a really decent microphone. But if you want that flexibility of being able to use any XLR microphone and even though it doesn't have Bluetooth, honestly I would prefer not to bring my phone in on Bluetooth because of the very slight lag that there is. You can plug your phone or your other audio equipment directly into the Vocaster and there's also two quarter inch out, line outs that you can plug into monitors. I haven't done that yet, but I think that would be an interesting experiment to try with too. It's those two jacks in the back on the bottom of the Vocaster. Shaun, you mentioned the Scarlet line of products. I do want to be fully transparent that the newest Scarlet, I believe it's the one I one and the two I two have increased accessibility with their software and it's my understanding that they're using the same underlying framework that the Vocaster hub is using. So since that's accessible, the new Scarlet software on those newest fourth generation lines is accessible as well. But I haven't needed to upgrade my Vocaster yet, so I can't say 'cause I haven't tested it. - Can I just say though, a huge part of this goal to focus right here, because you know, this is something which we've wanted to have access to is control over our audio in lots of different ways. That's why so many blind people who are into this world of podcasting tend to go down the route of having these big analog mixing desk consoles because they can sort of get in and about the information, the detail, the what, the audio they're sending, where they can control all of that on the desk with, with tactile buttons, with tactile switches, with tactile phases, all that stuff. But up until now it hasn't really been much in the way of software. I mean RODE, R-O-D-E, have got a fantastic range of products. They're just not accessible. They're just not accessible to blind people. They don't work for screen reader users. - That's right. - So a lot of the software that goes into this and a lot of the backend stuff, some great kit, I mean there's one I have on my desk, we use it for the TV show is called The Road Streamer X, which is a fantastic piece of kit. It has the ability to connect up a, you can even use, you can use wireless microphones with this. You can connect up an XLR microphone, you can hook up a 4K camera to this. That's what I'm using right now. So this video can be recorded but all the software, the underlying software is not accessible. So I need sighted help to use that now with Focus, right? And what they've done with this product, or these products in the forecaster range, is they've put a lot of effort into making these accessible, which is absolutely fantastic - Audient as well. There's been some great, great advocacy in the community in the EVO line of products from Audient also has very accessible software. I had the Audient EVO 16 for a brief period of time and then I realized I didn't have enough time to learn this piece of kit, but it had some amazingly accessible software too. So for people who are looking, that's another solution. - But I would say that's, I guess you're getting into the really high end at that point. I think you're talking high end production, right? So I think what I'm thinking about is for people who just want to get into either into, into basic podcast production or just get some control over their audio in a Zoom call, make sure they've got a decent microphone, can hear themselves properly. Also be able to listen to a screen reader whilst being in a Zoom call. That's another big deal for us. We don't want any of that audio going back down into the Zoom call. It gives you some control over all that, right? That's, that's why these devices are good. These, I wouldn't even call it entry level, but you could argue they are. - So that's a great transition when you plug the Vocaster into your Mac, everyone on Zoom's gonna hear your voiceover. - See you just wanna trash the Mac. today because this is all you want to do. - Would you let it lie Steven Scott? - No, we'll let it go. - You wouldn't. - Yeah, why is that? - I wouldn't, but I think it's important for people to know that though because I have a friend who bought the Vocaster and he's, he is frustrated because when he came into Zoom we're like, "Marty, we hear your," Oh I wasn't gonna name him, but, "Marty we hear your voiceover," I don't understand what's going on. So - I had Andy, I had Andy, I dunno - Yes Guy, Dave, Dave, I like it. But, but the, the gotcha is the way that it's set up and the way that Mac os core audio handles audio, it, it can be a little problematic. So you do need to go get loop back. It is an extra $99. But I'll tell you what, if you're doing anything with audio on the Mac, I'm sure Steven will agree you need to have audio hijack and loop back. - Amazing. - Because that will make your life that, that makes magic happen. - So I used Audio Hijack Pro, which was one of the same guys, RogueAmoeba, the developers of this and Audio Hijack Pro, a fantastic app. Also Farrago, which is what I use all the time. That's for sound. I mean what a fantastic soundboard app that is. If you wanna play in clips and stuff, you can use that. But to control audio, I can do pretty much anything I want. It's actually how I'm able to use my Roadcaster pro because all the audio channels are exposed to the Mac and then Lookback can take all those and I could say, right, okay, so I want that, this particular channel to be my main microphone. And then what that means is I can then take that channel, and make it its own input. Or output or whatever I want it to be. And I've got full control over that. And it's, it's super accessible. I mean it's a bit of a learning curve but you know, you can get it and there's tutorials out there. You're behind most of them. - No, no. Demaci is, gotta be fully transparent. - Oh, Demaci as well, yeah. - You taught me. Yeah. Yeah. But that's the same with the Vocaster. So it sees all the inputs. The Vocaster has, I think the one has 10 and the two has 12 input channels that MacOS just sees "Vocaster." So, the secret is you want channel five for your microphone and channel six if you're using the line in. And then you can combine those or you can separate those and you can, I have a virtual device called 'Mic only' which is actually a lie because it's mic only. And then I added QuickTime and then I added this app and I know where my audio is going. I also have a monitor in my right ear so I always know what's being played out to the whatever streaming service I'm using; Zoom or StreamYard, or other tools as well. - Listen, we're gonna have to go out here because you know some other video is gonna have to play in immediate. In a minute. So we have to get outta the way for that. You know, some sort of cat video may be required to be played next. So to get outta the way of it, just quickly to mention your experience so far, Shaun, because you're using it with a pc. - Yes. - PC of course stands for a piece of cheese, which is - Let's leave that there. - Which is much what it may as well be. - It's fantastic. I've gotta say, so easy to set up. As Michael said earlier, you're running one cable, one USBC cable for the power and the data. The buttons are all very tactile, easy to find. I was gonna say that, you know, I've got no indication of when the mute button is pressed from a tactile point of view. I'm sure there's lights all over this, but if you've got the Vocaster software running, if you alt tab to it, it tells you, you know, the check box is checked or it's not checked, it's all perfectly responsive. The the button at the back for phantom power, I dunno if that's on or off from a tactile point of view, but if I go into the software it tells me if it's on or off, it's either checked or not and I press the button and that changes. It's reflected in the software. So from an accessibility point of view, I'm really happy with this. And from the audio quality as well, it seems really good. It is a different way if you're used to your old mixer it is a different way of doing it, but I think this is more than enough for most people. Yeah, I'm very happy. - We should come back and do a bit more of a deep dive into this, you know, actually using it once you get into it for a few weeks we should get Michael back on and we'll we'll talk some more about this. Michael you're hosting I think about eight, is it eight, 8,000 podcasts at the moment? I think you're hosting one as well as the one. You're on another one right now, I believe. You know 'cause you're just always on a podcast somewhere. - Yeah. - Where can people find you? Is it, are you just sprayed all over the internet? We'll find you if we just put in your name, - Just go to "unmute.show" that'll get you all the podcasts. I'm in the process of migrating everything to that site. So you can go to "unmute.show" and then find whatever podcast you wanna listen to there. - Yeah and seriously go check them out because they're fantastic podcasts and on our wide range of topics Demacy of course and Marty and all the guys do a fantastic job over there. Michael, thanks for coming on as always. Catch you soon on the other show at some point. I'm sure you'll be back on with us on "DoubleTap" on "Regular DoubleTap", "Diet DoubleTap" as it may be. Although I must admit neither the two of us know anything about a diet so I dunno what I'm talking about. Anyway, Michael, thank you for coming on and we'll catch you next time. Don't forget to like and subscribe and remember if you do that we will make more of these videos. You have been warned. I'm out.